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Discussion Thread Female lecturer is this allowed in Islam?

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Student of Knowledge - member
6 posts

As salaam aleykom

I have followed a lot of the answers to questions on this forum and am happy with what I read so far.
I have a question which is very important as no one is talking about it. Where I live the people will be invioting Yasmin Mogahed to give a lecture which is ok but she will be lecturing men and women.  I am a female revert to Islam and knowing something about men I am not comfortable for my husband to look at another young woman lecturing or mixing with other female attendees.  Am I wrong to feel this way everyone else is ok with it and I am confused so please help me.  I am so confused with many things I see happening now not being the same as the Quran and hadiths that I read.

Respectfully,

Member of Forum Shura - moderator
61 posts

Assalamu alaykum,
I feel the scholars' answers will be most helpful here, but did not want to leave this thread unanswered, so I will say that your sentiment completely makes sense to me. As a man myself I fail to understand how a heterosexual male can not have feelings while looking at the face of a young woman, especially an attractive young woman. (Note - I have not seen the lecturer you referred to, but you mentioned she is a young woman.)
Also, although there is "information" spread in gatherings in which men and women are looking at one another, one can feel the purity of the hearts when he/she sits in gatherings in which men and women cannot look at one another. We only need to look inside of ourselves, at our own internal condition, and honestly ask ourselves how we are being affected when we sit in mixed gatherings vs. non-mixed gatherings.
I agree with you that there is much confusion these days. I personally feel that these times are those foretold by the Prophet (S) when he said:
Verily, Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from people but He takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, such that when He leaves no scholar left, the people will turn to the ignorant as their leaders; then they are asked to give religious judgments without knowledge, thus they go astray and lead others astray.” (Muslim)
Please note I am not making any comment about the speaker you mentioned, as only Allah (SWT) knows her intention and condition, and as a layman I am not qualified to issue legal rulings.
May Allah (SWT) guide us all, ameen.

Member of Forum Shura - moderator
98 posts

As-Salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah 

May Allah increase you all in good and raise you in rank...ameen.

I too am a simple student who has no authority to issue a legal opinion, however in one of the last classes with Sheikh Muhammad Daniel he mentioned the fact that the females who narrated ahadith in the past are not the same as the women getting up to give lectures to grown men today. He also mentioned that there is no lack of male scholarship to necessitate a woman standing up lecturing grown men (though this is not to be taken as applying that lack of make scholarship would or would not be a justification). He spoke about this topic (women scholars appearing before men to give lectures) in a negative tone and so I understood that his position (and he is far more capable of speaking for himself) to be against this type of behavior.

What is more, it should be from the modesty of a woman to not stand before an audience of men, all of whom are gazing upon her. From the tradition of scholarship in Islam is to act upon what we know and it is well known that women should not put themselves on display. This is an admittedly biased opinion from myself. My wife is also a student, as is my oldest daughter (by Allah's permission) and I could not imagine them standing in front of a group of men looking at them intently!

Finaly, I only add that your feelings and conciderations concerning this matter (in your own family) come before any justifications to attend such a gathering (again, for your own family). If you are uncomfortable with the gathering, this should be reason enough for your husband to honor you and give it a miss.

I again say that I am only a student and this is not a legal position but rather naseeha.

May Allah raise every reader to the highest gardens...ameen.

Wa salaamu alaikum

Member of Forum Shura - moderator
45 posts

Assalam Alaikum wa Rahmat Allah,

This is an interesting question and one I need the answer to myself. Insha Allah, I hope to share whatever knowledge I gain and would like to learn the adab of doing so as a woman.

How did the women of the past, including Aisha (RA) impart their knowledge to men? I ask out of complete lack of knowledge on this topic and a keen interest to learn.

Member of Forum Shura - moderator
98 posts

I hope that we see one of our sheiyookh responding soon, however, I will say that it is known that Aisha (may Allah be pleased with our mother...ameen) used to sit in her home (connected to masjid an-Nabawwi) and teach with a curtain up. The only males that would see her were her nephews who would enter the house for class. 
I heard from one of my teachers that there would be an ongoing 'inside joke'/debate between her and Abu Hurairah over the wearing of one shoe...she would ask if he was present and if he was she would announce that she only had one shoe on. 
If this is sound, This is another indication that she would not see out at the audience nor would they see in upon her.

May Allah forgive me my errors...ameen. And may He guide us all upon His straight path and grant us His good pleasure manifested in this life and the hereafter...ameen.

Member of Forum Shura - admin
667 posts

As salam mu alaikum wa rahmat Ullah wa barakataHu

I have decided to divide my answer to this question in at least two posts in order to make it easier upon the reader to contemplate the contents of it.  As always, I also welcome discussion from those noble students that particpate on this forum.

I ask Allah to increase you in your desire to remain on the ‘straight path’ and make your journey on this path easy and clear for you.  What probably causes you to ask this question is a trait that has all, but become lost in secular societies, but remains strong amongst Muslims, known commonly as gheerah. (chaste-jealousy)

In order for me to answer this question and address the specifics of it, I would need to know more information about the nature of these lectures and how they are to be conducted as well as other information that will come in the context of my answer.  As this information is not available to me now, my answer will provide general guidelines about the topic.

First of all, I would like to provide you with a non exhaustive list of the vices that occur when such lectures are conducted to a mixed gender audience.

The female lecturer speaks softly, tells jokes and even laughs during her lectures.

Where is she from these verses of the Quran in Surah al-Ahzab which do not require much explanation as they are quite clear?

"If you fear Allah then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should be moved to desire [you], but speak with appropriate speech.  And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance."

The female lecturer does not adhere to the principles of Islamic Hijaab by either not wearing a Hijab or by wearing a Hijab that adorns her and causes a person to stare, worst still she wears make-up.

For an example of this, one simply needs to look at the Islamic satellite channels or al-Jazeera news channel where the women cover their heads with vibrant fashionable scarfs and wear make up as if they are going to their marriage ceremony, not read the stories of the day to viewers

The gathering causes for the free-mixing of genders.

It goes without saying, that if a Muslim female lecturer is talking on an Islamic subject the likelihood of women attending the lecture is very high and if men are also invited there is a huge potential risk that free-mixing will occur.  More often than not, and based on my extensive experience of traveling to conferences, good preparations ensuring the segregation of sexes to a reasonable degree are not made.  This leads us to find that men and women are sitting beside each other, large groups of men and women are entering and exiting through the same doors sometimes in such a hurry to obtain a good seat etcetera that they even make physical contact.

Further to that, and in the interest of covering the expenses of bringing this lecturer, no dress code is advertised on the promotional materials or even enforced at the event. This results in a many brothers and sisters -that suffer from a lack of hayah- attending and wearing make-up, jewelry and clothing that is not permissible for them to be wearing other than in front people of the same gender and nothing is said about it, but rather it has been said that, "You should have a Hijab in your heart"

The female lecturer wears clothing that shows the contours of the body or while she gives the lecture bends into positions that are not synonymous with the concept of hayah in Islam.

Again while attending a Muslim training conference in New York, none of the attendees found it in the least deplorable that the female Muslim lecturer was clearly displaying her cleavage and when I objected to this, I was looked upon as if I was strange or an extremist. (Subhan Allah)

To be continued

Mohammed Daniel

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Member of Forum Shura - founder
666 posts

The title was changed to remove names but the first post cannot be changed in this forum.  In future, we ask that names are not used if the question can be made general.

Thank you

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For Serious Students of the Sacred Islamic Sciences
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Member of Forum Shura - moderator
503 posts

I just want to make some remarks on this issue if you allow me. 

To the brothers: would you like your wives to do this? This is a question we need to ask ourselves. I have asked my wife and she wouldn't even like to do it for many reasons of which some are stated above by our beloved teacher.

The great women scholars of the past all taught from behind a screen / curtain. This is not unknown. The women who speak on these conferences don't even come close to them.

If we reverse the situation: a male teacher for women. My wife studied at madrassah and she had never seen her teacher because there was a curtain between him and them. They only saw his feet. And she was taught like this for years in all subjects.

To get an idea of this I recently read something similar in the book by shaykh Hakim Muhammad Akhtar Sahib from Pakistan "Effective Remedies for Spiritual Maladies", the last part.

Yes, we want women to be learned and to study, I encourage that a lot but who do we follow? 


Member of Forum Shura - moderator
98 posts

I would like to make a very important point for our sisters, Insha Allah.

One of my teachers, whom I love for the sake of Allah, Sheikh Muhammad Shareef ibn Fareed, may Allah preserve him and grant him success in this life and the hereafter...ameen, would suspended my Ijaaza until I taught the text to my wife. I would finish the book and he would give me the sanad and Ijaaza but only on the condition that I first taught it to my wife. The reason, he stressed, was because we men tend to be busy in life supporting our families and assisting our communities...so who is raising our children? If we acquire knowledge but not our wives, there is an imbalance in the family which will extend to the next generation...harming our ummah. This is of the utmost importance!
What is more, if a woman does not have children of her own, what about nieces and nephews (first) or neighbors (second) or the community (such as youth classes in the masajid), etc. 

Dr. Abu Ubaida just mentioned to us that the primary reason for learning is to lift ignorance from ourselves...not teaching others, that is secondary. And Imam Ghazali warned of the seeking of knowledge for prestige. We do not need to be super stars or public speakers or imams or the like...we need to save ourselves from the fire (which entails learning and acting upon that knowledge) and then aiding our families from falling into the fire (which entails teaching and guiding them). And again, it was from my sheikh, Muhammad Shareef ibn Fareed, may Allah protect him and open for him the ways of good in this life and the hereafter...ameen, who warned me about pride, arrogance [ego] as being from the diseases of the heart that the students of sacred knowledge must be worry of. 

I mentioned all of this because Haruni's last sentence sparked this in my heart...may Allah accept it from us both and forgive us our shortcomings...ameen. It is important for us to acquire knowledge, but it is also important that we understand how to properly pass it on to others...both male and female. 

Sometimes I am shy that I have spoken out of turn, spoken when it was best to remain silent, but I also fear remaining silent when there may be benefit had I spoken...please forgive me my errors and bad manners here.

May Allah accept everything our beloved Sheikh Muhammad Daniel is doing and make his affairs easy. May Allah grant him and his family success in this life and the hereafter and open the doors of security to his in-laws and their family. May He facilitate for him ease and increase and raise him to the highest of ranks...ameen.
May Allah accept the efforts of everyone associated with the CA, the staff, sheiyookh, students and those behind the scenes and grant them the truest of successes...ameen.

Wa alaikum salaam,
Wm. Halim Breiannis

Member of Forum Shura - moderator
503 posts

Amin!

If we read dr. Akram Nadwi's book about the women hadith scholars we see he writes on pp. 176 and further women taught hadith in:

- their houses or houses of others;
- mosques;
- madaris;
- ribaats; and
- orchards or gardens.

But he doesn't mention how exactly this took place; this remains a question. One of the most amazing passages in that book is what he writes about shaykhah Umm al-Khayr Fatimah bint Ibrahim ibn Muhammad ibn Jawhar al-Ba'labakki al-Bata'ihi (d. 711 AH) on pag. 179. She taught hadith in Masjid an-Nabawi "while she was leaning on the side of the wall of the grave of the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) in front of his head." Try and imagine this nowadays.... This is really something else subhanAllah. 
.



Student of Knowledge - member
36 posts


Is modesty (even Islamic modesty) not subjective? Is it not true that in different cultures, the extent of Hijab observed also differs? For e.g. if you are in Saudia Arabia, uncovering your face may bring attention to you as a woman, but if you are in Malaysia, normal headscarf and loose clothing would bring about the same effect. Apart from following the basic standards, should she also not take into account cultural connotations?

Are we not supposed to take cultural norms and connotations into account when debating the ''halalness'' of the female speaker in question? Also, isn't gender-interaction to a certain extent dependant on cultural norms too? The members who travel will have noticed how the appropriateness of certain aspects of gender-interaction will change according to cultures. For e.g. no woman will ever want to be on the board of a Masjid, or address a male crowd in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Yet she may feel perfectly at ease doing that in UK or USA.. because society defines different roles for her. A woman can take public transport alone in the west, yet the same woman will not do that in an Asian country...

If I am a female professional... I cannot give power-point presentations to my colleagues, because some may be male and I need to be behind a screen? I need to be stiff and not joke during my presentation? Even though you are taught in Business Communication or Public Speaking that one has to engage the audience? 

Or is it possible that the halalness of certain actions can be dependent on the circumstances, culture, situation and context?

Student of Knowledge - member
36 posts

Again while attending a Muslim training conference in New York, none ofthe attendees found it in the least deplorable that the female Muslim lecturerwas clearly displaying her cleavage and when I objected to this, I was lookedupon as if I was strange or an extremist. (Subhan Allah)To be continued… Mohammed Daniel

-md

Salam Alaikum Sheikh Daniel,

I am commenting because I feel this is a good opportunity to engage with others and listen to other viewpoints so we can learn and benefit more. I believe you are far more learned than me in terms of religion, and I say this with sincere intentions. What I am about to say is more on the emotional, human side...

With all due respect, I believe it would not be wise to object to the dress of a woman in a non-muslim country where women are free to dress as they please. Even if the lady in question was a Muslimah, it is possible that her level of imaan was not where it is supposed to be. So how can we object to her dresscode? (especially since we are in a nonmuslim country governed by nonmuslim laws) Objecting to non-hijabi sister could send many wrong messages. Are we not supposed to engage all sorts of people? If that muslimah had any knowledge or benefits to offer the conference, are we to exclude her because we believe her dresscode is not where it should be? I feel that as a community, we should be inclusive rather than exclusive. 






guest
12 posts
Exactly Sister. The greatest American Imam Hamza Yusuf said this

7. Empower our women as spokespeople. While I am personally committed to the injunctions of modest dress for men and women, I think we absolutely must get beyond the wedge issues in our community, such as who wears a headscarf and who doesn’t, and recognize that we are all in this together, and that people’s outward degrees of religiosity do not determine their loyalty to the faith in any substantial way. While the ideal is inward and outward congruity, nonetheless, we have people whose outward displays are of religiosity while their inward reality is hypocrisy; contrariwise, we have people who have no outward display of religiosity but are actually doing much more than the average Muslim to help Islam and the Muslims. It is important to get beyond judging people according to stereotypical expectations of what a good Muslim is or is not. I heard a wise person state, “The trappings can be a trap,” and I completely agree. We have brilliant, committed Muslim women who do not wear a headscarf and are extremely effective, and they should be centralized, not marginalized. These women can reach people much more effectively in many but certainly not all cases. Here again, a case-by-case assessment is important. The majority of American Muslim women do not wear a headscarf, and to always assume that only a woman in hijab should be chosen to represent Muslims is a misrepresentation of the diversity of our community.
Student of Knowledge - member
36 posts

Assalamu alaikum,

Shaykh Mohammed, can you please clarify what the answer is if the conditions you mentioned in your post were met? I have seen female speakers before in proper hijab and even niqab giving lectures while maintaining a leveled tone in their voice and staying on topic without derailing the talk with unnecessary chatter, laughter, jokes etc..

Also, i see a lot of posts here from noble students along the lines of 'how would you feel about such and such' and the issue of attractiveness which are all emotional arguments. Please support your arguments with shar'i evidence and not mere emotions.The argument of attraction, yes that is the case as men and women were created to be attracted to one another. But when did this become a shar'i reason to isolate women even in matters of dawah and other initiatives that she can offer to her community and the ummah at large? 

In the west especially and in some settings the women of knowledge in both islam and academics  outnumber the men, hence their heavy presence in the dawah setting.

I am not trying to defend one stance but i am genuinely seeking clarification on a matter which im only given emotional responses for.

Student of Knowledge - member
36 posts

Exactly Sister. The greatest American Imam Hamza Yusuf said this

7. Empower our women as spokespeople. While I am personally committed to the injunctions of modest dress for men and women, I think we absolutely must get beyond the wedge issues in our community, such as who wears a headscarf and who doesn’t, and recognize that we are all in this together, and that people’s outward degrees of religiosity do not determine their loyalty to the faith in any substantial way. While the ideal is inward and outward congruity, nonetheless, we have people whose outward displays are of religiosity while their inward reality is hypocrisy; contrariwise, we have people who have no outward display of religiosity but are actually doing much more than the average Muslim to help Islam and the Muslims. It is important to get beyond judging people according to stereotypical expectations of what a good Muslim is or is not. I heard a wise person state, “The trappings can be a trap,” and I completely agree. We have brilliant, committed Muslim women who do not wear a headscarf and are extremely effective, and they should be centralized, not marginalized. These women can reach people much more effectively in many but certainly not all cases. Here again, a case-by-case assessment is important. The majority of American Muslim women do not wear a headscarf, and to always assume that only a woman in hijab should be chosen to represent Muslims is a misrepresentation of the diversity of our community.

-zak


There is a fine line between avoiding the judgment of a person and putting someone who disobeys the commands of Allah openly out in the open to preach the message of Islam. I say it and without a grain of hesitance, this is outright contradiction and to actually support these people and 'centralize' them is just stupid.

Ulema who adhered to all the commands of Allah swt and MORE would not put themselves in the position of teaching until years of reform and additional discipline. And here we are a few centuries later saying its ok to let a woman who openly disobeys the command of Allah (by not wearing her hijab) preach the message of Islam out in the open in conferences and circles of knowledge?

Instead of worrying about preaching Islam to others they should spend more time strengthening their own Islam to obey the commands of Allah. After all, dawah is fard kifaya and there are plenty of other people to do the work- whereas hijab is a fard ayn and this is what these sisters shoudl occupy their time with. 

Allah swt says in surat al tahreem 'o you who believe guard yourselves and your families from the fire...'

If Allah swt Himself defines who should be prioritized and in which order. Ourselves then our families. No mention of communities even though other ayat and ahadith indicate it. But we learn from this that we need to work on ourselves before our families and on our families before our communities.

 


Student of Knowledge - member
36 posts

There is a fine line between avoiding the judgment of a person and putting someone who disobeys the commands of Allah openly out in the open to preach the message of Islam. I say it and without a grain of hesitance, this is outright contradiction and to actually support these people and 'centralize' them is just stupid. Ulema who adhered to all the commands of Allah swt and MORE would not put themselves in the position of teaching until years of reform and additional discipline. And here we are a few centuries later saying its ok to let a woman who openly disobeys the command of Allah (by not wearing her hijab) preach the message of Islam out in the open in conferences and circles of knowledge? 

-sadiqatul_quran

I don't think anybody here is suggesting that a Muslimah who is not a scholar starts teaching Islam to others. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the discussion is about muslim women ''being allowed'' to speak in public circles in the field of their expertise - regardless of their dress-code. (Although technically nobody can ''disallow'' them since most of these lecturers speak and live in western countries.) Is it not sad that the countries where our women's expertise are publicly  appreciated are all non-muslim? And in 2012 Muslims are still unsure whether or not a woman can speak in public...  How can we expect a muslim woman to honour her Islamic values when as a muslim society we are giving her the message that you shall not be heard or accepted unless you are in such -and-such a way. Yet the western society encourages her to achieve her best and says: we only care about the expertise you have to offer. A young confused woman living in the west will naturally be inclined towards which lifestyle? I read somewhere that a scholar in Al-Azhar once advised his student by saying: Keep in mind that the blood in these books is cold and black (ink) but the blood in veins of the people you deal with is red and warm... 

Not wearing a hijab is a symptom to a deeper rooted problem faced by both men and women in today's world. Women tend to come under the line of fire because we can judge it based on their lack of hijab, a scrutiny most men can easily avoid. 

Instead, I feel we should have a ''come as you are'' policy, where people are welcome in religious gatherings and conferences with ''no strings attached''. Instead of creating an atmosphere where people who don't even have their islamic fundamentals in place feel they have to look or act a certain way to gain any recognition. 

We ask for tolerance from non-muslims all the time, but how tolerant are we really towards fellow muslims whom we deem religiously unfit? We are going to push them to the fringes, where others will embrace them with open arms. I saw a documentary once in which a young muslim lady (observing hijab) mentioned that she feels more appreciated and valued in non-muslim gatherings at her university, where she can address a crowd of 100s, yet she feels invisible at her own masjid where she cannot even address a crowd of 5.

There is a deep chasm between the ''practising religious muslims'' of today and the non-practising or semi-practising muslims of today... they study, socialise and live and two completely different worlds. In order to show them the benefits and beauty of Islam, the religiously practising need to interact with them and engage them. 





 

Senior Student of Knowledge - member
143 posts

bismillaah
 From islamqa.com

I am a 16 yr old girl.I recently changed my school.
Please could tou tell me how must i conduct myself in school.The girls to boys ratio is grossly unfair in this school.For eg in my chem class there are nearly 15 boys and only 3 girls!so sometimes when i need help with a ques or have an urgent doubt ihave to callup guys(vvvreluctantly).Moreover, since there are so few girls the guys are so frank with us. i spend about7hrs in school and i guess its not possible to not talk to anyone.Please let me know how should i behave in school .is it ok if i talk to guys or is it better that i not try be friendly with them?.

Praise be to Allaah.  

Your attending a mixed school is haraam according to sharee’ah, because the mixing that you describe is exposing you to moral corruption and may be a means of causing you to commit sin. 

In many ahaadeeth, the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned men against the fitnah (temptation) of women, and he indicated that the matter is so serious that their fitnah is the worst of fitnahs and the most harmful thing. 

It was narrated from Usaamah ibn Zayd (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I am not leaving behind me any fitnah more harmful to men than women.” 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4808; Muslim 2740 

It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Beware of entering upon women.” A man from among the Ansaar said, “O Messenger of Allaah, what about the in-law?’ He said, “The in-law is death.” 

Al-Bukhaari, 4934; Muslim, 2172 

Ibn Hajar said, commenting on the first hadeeth: 

This hadeeth indicates that the fitnah caused by women is greater than any other fitnah. This is supported by the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Beautified for men is the love of things they covet; women…”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:14] 

Allaah described them as being among the things that men covet, and He mentioned them first, before the other things, to indicate that they are the cause of the fitnah. We can see that a man is more inclined to love the children of a woman to whom he is still married than the children of a woman whom he has divorced.  

Fath al-Baari, 9/138 

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

Undoubtedly allowing women to mix freely with men is the basis of all evils. This is one of the greatest causes of punishment coming down upon everyone and of public and private affairs becoming corrupt. Free mixing of men and women is the cause of much immorality and adultery, and it is the cause of general doom and diseases. 

… 

One of the greatest causes of general doom is the prevalence of adultery because of allowing women to mix freely with men and to walk amongst them making a wanton display of their beauty. If the powers that be knew how much corruption it causes to worldly interests and to people, they would prevent it most vigorously. 

Al-Turuq al-Hakamiyyah, p. 408 

In the mixing that you describe, it is not possible to lower one's gaze and it provokes women to desire men and vice versa. This is not permissible; rather this is the thing that leads to corruption. If the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that for his own cousin (son of his paternal uncle) al-Fadl ibn al-‘Abbaas, when he was riding with him on his mount and they were performing one of the dearest acts of worship to Allaah, namely the Hajj, when Al-Fadl was in the company of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and at the time of the Sahaabah who were the most pious of people, then how can we allow the women of our own times, when diseases of the heart are widespread and religious commitment is at such a low level, to sit in the same place as men without a mahram, for so many hours every day?

 Fear Allaah, my sister, and do not go to this school, no matter how difficult that may be. We will quote to you the hadeeth of al-Fadl referred to above: 

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: Al-Fadl was the riding partner of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). A woman from (the tribe of) Kath’am came, and al-Fadl started looking at her and she started looking at him, so the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) turned al-Fadl’s face to the other side. She said, “O Messenger of Allaah, the command of Allaah enjoining Hajj upon His slaves has come when my father is an old man and is not steady on his mount; can I do Hajj on his behalf?” He said, “Yes.” That was the Farewell pilgrimage. 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1442; Muslim, 1334. 

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, commenting on this hadeeth: 

This hadeeth demonstrates the natural desire for women that is created in human beings, and what may be feared from looking at them. Al-Fadl ibn ‘Abbaas was one of the young men of Banu Haashim, and he was the most handsome man of his time, according to what they said. 

This also indicates that the ruler must prevent men and women from looking at one another. That includes preventing the women for whom there is no guarantee that they will not cause or be subject to temptation from walking in the streets and marketplaces and places where they can look at men. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:  “I am not leaving behind me any fitnah more harmful to men than women.” And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts)…”

[al-Noor 24:31]  

This is sufficient for the one who ponders the meanings of the Book of Allaah and is guided to act upon it. 

Al-Tamheed, 9/123-124 

There is no need for mixing. Studying in this school is not essential; so long as a woman can read and write and knows the teachings of her religion, that is sufficient, because she was created for that, i.e., to worship Allaah. Anything beyond that is not essential. 

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/8827

Abu Hurayrah (radiAllaahu 3anhu) reported that the Prophet (sallallaahu 3alaihi wa sallam) said: "There are two types of people of Hell that I have never seen; people with whips like the tails of cattle, with which they strike the people, and women who are dressed but appear naked, walking with an enticing gait, with their heads looking like the humps of camels, leaning to one side. They will never enter Paradise, nor even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be discerned from such and such a distance".
[Saheeh Muslim, al-Bayhaqi, and Ahmad - Silsilat al-Ahadith as-Saheehah, 3/316, no. 1326]


from Hamzah ibn Abi Usayd from his father that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, when he was coming out of the mosque and he saw men mingling with women in the street; the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to the women, "Draw back, and do not walk in the middle of the road; keep to the sides of the road." Then the women used to keep so close to the walls that their garments would catch on the walls because they kept so close to them. "
[Ahmad / Al-Tirmidhi (5272) / Classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami',(929)]

Student of Knowledge - member
5 posts

Assalaamu `Alaikum,

Realistically once someone is put to the forefront to speak at Islamic conferences and gatherings they implicitly become a representative of Islam (even if they are speaking on secular issues) - our children and young people begin look up to them and they are looked to as important figures in the community.

I think one of the central issues that must be addressed is that sometimes openness about a subject or publicizing certain behavior carries with it an implication that this behavior is acceptable, and as Muslims it desensitizes us to people being disobedient to Allah. 

And whatever her personal struggles were and are, a sister who stands up to lecture without maintaining a proper Islamic dress code is publicizing her behavior. We are already surrounded by things that go contrary to our religion - we should not ignore the desensitizing effect that this could have on our society where many young girls are already struggling with hijab and they need strong role models to look up to.

Imagine encouraging your young daughter to wear hijab only to hear her say, "Well, most of the ladies speaking at the conference yesterday weren't wearing it!"

And there is a distinction that must be drawn between being inclusive as an Islamic society (and being open and tolerant with people's varying levels of faith and practice). And selecting people who will be put forth to educate us, represent us, etc.

And I think we can be inclusive while still maintaining standards of appropriate behavior. Why couldn't we, as a community, request that during a certain Islamic program (regardless of what they do in their personal life) all presenters and speakers adhere to a code of behavior: maintain proper Islamic attire that is both professional and modest (loose fitting clothes, etc including hijab for sisters); that they not use profanity or tell racially sensitive or sexist jokes; that they not mock aspects of Islam deserving of respect, etc....

Student of Knowledge - member
36 posts

Assalaamu `Alaikum,Realistically once someone is put to the forefront to speak at Islamic conferences and gatherings they implicitly become a representative of Islam (even if they are speaking on secular issues)  

-hassan

On secular issues, we need to look at what the person is bringing to the table in terms of knowledge and expertise. You would rather hear from a man or woman who ''looks'' more muslim than a man or woman who may not fit the ''perfect look'' yet has the required expertise? In that case, we will prevent our community from benefiting. Its our own loss. No one else's. If I recollect correctly there is a hadith in Tirmidhi (please correct me if I am wrong) in which the Prophet (s.a.w) says ''Knowledge is the property of the believer. Wherever he sees it, he takes it.''
Then don't let our children go to Ivy League Universities, or top schools, or conferences and learn from the best in the field because those people do not fulfil our religious expectations. And lets encourage mediocrity and discourage merit, because we are afraid we cannot explain to our children why there not as many Niqabi Lawyers and Human Right Activists, and Hijabi Politicians.

And whatever her personal struggles were and are, a sister who stands up to lecture without maintaining a proper Islamic dress code is publicizing her behavior. We are already surrounded by things that go contrary to our religion - we should not ignore the desensitizing effect that this could have on our society where many young girls are already struggling with hijab and they need strong role models to look up to.

There are young muslim women who observe Hijab and dress modestly, and work in big organisations like CAIR, or have lectures on youtube (like the female lecturer in question) yet their level of Hijab is not good enough for some. So who decides? We have people debating whether or not their voice is awrah, or can they show their face to a male in the audience....

Also, where are these ''strong role models'' ? Basically our daughters have no ''visible'' female role-models to emulate in the first place. [Yes our daughters read about the Sahabiat, and the Umhat-ul-Momineen, but they need to see those strong women bieng emulated too!] Out of the few we have, we are picking based on level of Hijab. We don't have the luxury of choice. In the absence of any female role-models that don't have fluff in their skulls, who do you think they shall look up to? (Hint: media).

Imagine encouraging your young daughter to wear hijab only to hear her say, "Well, most of the ladies speaking at the conference yesterday weren't wearing it!"

I think as Muslims we need to have the ability to tell right from wrong and teach it to our kids. Take good, and leave the bad - rather than shutting ourselves out completely from realities of this life. I want to be able to take my daughter to a conference, and tell her she can be up there in full hijab doing what this lady is doing, but in a better way. 

Your daughter can say the same when she sees a young women remove her hijab in the masjid parking lot or at the grocery store, or at a wedding. She will say this when she comes across girls in her school or university that don't wear hijab. Do we really think that by creating an artificially islamic environment in a conference room (by artificial I mean, the individuals are not choosing to do it and its temporary) we can pretend everything is normal? If anything it creates a weird bi-polar atmosphere where we pretend everybody is a perfect angel in the confines of a conference room and the opposite outside.

Why couldn't we, as a community, request that during a certain Islamic program (regardless of what they do in their personal life) all presenters and speakers adhere to a code of behavior: maintain proper Islamic attire that is both professional and modest (loose fitting clothes, etc including hijab for sisters); that they not use profanity or tell racially sensitive or sexist jokes; that they not mock aspects of Islam deserving of respect, etc....

I think that speakers already try their best to dress appropriately and professionally according to their speaking environment. To ask them to do any more is being a tad too intrusive. Also, a majority of these speakers may even take offence and feel it is against their principles to conform to our version of dress.

Just like you would not ask a male-speaker to not shave before an event, or not wear such and such t-shirt, or expose their ankles before an event, it would not be appropriate to tell a female speaker to show up in an Abaya or headscarf.

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