Discussion Thread Female lecturer is this allowed in Islam?

Is modesty (even Islamic modesty) not subjective? Is it not true that in different cultures, the extent of Hijab observed also differs? For e.g. if you are in Saudia Arabia, uncovering your face may bring attention to you as a woman, but if you are in Malaysia, normal headscarf and loose clothing would bring about the same effect. Apart from following the basic standards, should she also not take into account cultural connotations?Are we not supposed to take cultural norms and connotations into account when debating the ''halalness'' of the female speaker in question? Also, isn't gender-interaction to a certain extent dependant on cultural norms too? The members who travel will have noticed how the appropriateness of certain aspects of gender-interaction will change according to cultures. For e.g. no woman will ever want to be on the board of a Masjid, or address a male crowd in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Yet she may feel perfectly at ease doing that in UK or USA.. because society defines different roles for her. A woman can take public transport alone in the west, yet the same woman will not do that in an Asian country...
If I am a female professional... I cannot give power-point presentations to my colleagues, because some may be male and I need to be behind a screen? I need to be stiff and not joke during my presentation? Even though you are taught in Business Communication or Public Speaking that one has to engage the audience? Or is it possible that the halalness of certain actions can be dependent on the circumstances, culture, situation and context?-featherbrain

As salam mu alaikum Sister (I assume this from your posts)

You have brought up some very valid points which are worth discussing.

If you look at the Islamic corpus you will find that there is a genuine difference of opinion between the scholars as to whether the covering of the face is obligatory or not and many see it as compulsory whereas others see that a free woman should cover her whole body except face and hands.  What is interesting to note is that the scholars who hold the second opinion have also put conditions in place to ensure that hayah is maintained.  They do not allow for a woman to go out and about unnecessarily or to engage in activities that would be contrary to the principle of hayah.  I believe that laughing and joking with strange men is out of the boundaries of hayah.

Now , as long as one is observing the Islamic dress code and covering what they should be in the correct way, it does not matter what material or cultural design they use as long as that dress is the norm for the society they live in.  In fact it is better for them to wear such clothing so as not to catch the attention of people unnecessarily by standing out, looking wealthier etc as our Beloved (Salahu alayhi wasalam) has said in an authentic hadith that can be found in al-Jami of Imam al-Tirmidhi and Sunan Abi Dawood as well as other compilations:

من لبس ثوبَ شُهرةٍ في الدُّنيا ألبسه اللهُ ثوبَ مَذلَّةٍ يومَ القيامةِ

Whoever wears a garment of celebrity in this world, Allah will dress him with a garment of disgrace on the Day of Qiyamah. (resurrection)

And Allah knows best

As salaam aleykom

Very thankful to you Sheikh for this helpful answer.  My husband was convinced and won't go.
Asking Allah to reward you for your staying on the truth.

Respectfully,

As salam mu alaikum Sister (I assume this from your posts)You have brought up some very valid points which are worthdiscussing.If you look at the Islamic corpus you will find that thereis a genuine difference of opinion between the scholars as to whether thecovering of the face is obligatory or not and many see it as compulsory whereasothers see that a free woman should cover her whole body except face and hands.  What is interesting to note is that thescholars who hold the second opinion have also put conditions in place toensure that hayah is maintained.  They donot allow for a woman to go out and about unnecessarily or to engage inactivities that would be contrary to the principle of hayah.  I believe that laughing and joking withstrange men is out of the boundaries of hayah.Now , as long as one is observing the Islamic dress code andcovering what they should be in the correct way, it does not matter whatmaterial or cultural design they use as long as that dress is the norm for thesociety they live in.  In fact it isbetter for them to wear such clothing so as not to catch the attention ofpeople unnecessarily by standing out, looking wealthier etc as our Beloved(Salahu alayhi wasalam) has said in an authentic hadith that can be found inal-Jami of Imam al-Tirmidhi and Sunan Abi Dawood as well as other compilations:من لبس ثوبَ شُهرةٍ في الدُّنيا ألبسه اللهُ ثوبَ مَذلَّةٍ يومَ القيامةِWhoever wears a garment of celebrity in this world, Allahwill dress him with a garment of disgrace on the Day of Qiyamah. (resurrection)And Allah knows best

-md

Jazakumullah Khairan Katheer for responding Sheikh Daniel. 

Just wanted to clarify the  ''laughing and joking with strange men'' part. When I said that we may need to add humour to a presentation, I meant in a professional/ business context, where a muslimah may be giving a presentation to a number of people (not just men, or one man). I was of the understanding that in a non-khalwah, professional environment, the severity of speech could differ, no? In a one-to-one (secluded) conversation the Muslimah could and should keep small-talk to a minimum and need not laugh, joke, smile. In a presentation however, the speaker is required to be amiable, and people will often add comics in their presentations that joke about their line of work or department. Light hearted comments like "'our department actually works, unlike so & so department'' are common. Since the humour is not of a personal nature, nor is it directed towards one person, it cannot be misunderstood as flirting, immodesty etc.

Also, JazakAllah Khair for sharing that piece of information about dressing in such a way that we do not draw unnecessary attention to ourselves. 

I have seen Sister Yasmin Mogahed's videos, she dresses modestly according to the society she lives in (USA) and she addresses very important issues for the female youth, such as issues of young women being misguided by notions of modern-day romance, and focusing on our relationship with Allah instead. I feel that young muslimahs will relate to her more than having a male scholar address the same issues. May Allah give her hidayah and guidance and allow her to do even more good. Ameen.

Now , as long as one is observing the Islamic dress code andcovering what they should be in the correct way, it does not matter whatmaterial or cultural design they use as long as that dress is the norm for thesociety they live in.  In fact it isbetter for them to wear such clothing so as not to catch the attention ofpeople unnecessarily by standing out, looking wealthier etc as our Beloved(Salahu alayhi wasalam) has said in an authentic hadith that can be found inal-Jami of Imam al-Tirmidhi and Sunan Abi Dawood as well as other compilations:من لبس ثوبَ شُهرةٍ في الدُّنيا ألبسه اللهُ ثوبَ مَذلَّةٍ يومَ القيامةِWhoever wears a garment of celebrity in this world, Allahwill dress him with a garment of disgrace on the Day of Qiyamah. (resurrection)

-md

-md

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,
Shaykh, does this quote apply to Muslims wearing Sunnah-style clothing in non-Muslim countries for the purpose of Da'wah? I know many brothers who do this to great effect, and they are good at what they do (i.e. professionally) and have great akhlaaq as well (i.e. opening the doors for people, helping the elderly, etc.). 
JazakAllahu khairan for the clarification.

I have seen Sister Yasmin Mogahed's videos, she dresses modestly according to the society she lives in (USA) and she addresses very important issues for the female youth, such as issues of young women being misguided by notions of modern-day romance, and focusing on our relationship with Allah instead. I feel that young muslimahs will relate to her more than having a male scholar address the same issues. May Allah give her hidayah and guidance and allow her to do even more good. Ameen.

-featherbrain

I'm sure everything you said is true, but the issue is whether a female lecturer should be speaking to male audiences in a way in which both are looking at one another. It's true that we can't change the environment around us, such as the university/professional environments in non-Muslim countries, but we can change our own events, conferences, and lectures. Will Allah (SWT) ask us about things that we have no control over, or things that we have control over? If we don't act according to Sunnah and Shariah in what Allah has given us control over, then how can we expect Allah 'azza wa jall to give us control over other things? It is very clear from the lives of the Sahaba and the pious predecessors what the ideal method for male-female interaction (for a class, lecture, conference etc.) should be, and this is mentioned in the Qur'an as well - and was commanded for the purity of the hearts to that generation which had the purest of hearts. Our success lies in following their footsteps and methodology, as Imam Malik (RA) said, "The latter part of this Ummah cannot rectify themselves except through that which the former part did." That is how the Ummah achieved greatness, by following our own ways and our own methodologies - not by following their ever-changing ways and methodologies, which are, by their own experiences and admission, leading to all sorts of societal problems.

 

It's true that we can't change the environment around us, such as the university/professional environments in non-Muslim countries, but we can change our own events, conferences, and lectures. Will Allah (SWT) ask us about things that we have no control over, or things that we have control over? If we don't act according to Sunnah and Shariah in what Allah has given us control over, then how can we expect Allah 'azza wa jall to give us control over other things?

Do you have ''control over'' conferences you are attending or are invited to? Unless you are the one organising the event, you really don't have a say in how things go. All you can do is give polite feedback. Also, just because we don't have control over the event, doesn't mean we should not attend them and encourage whatever good they have to offer. After enough practising muslims start attending, their voice will have some weight.

As (practising) muslims we need to learn how to pick our battles, what important issues to raise and when. Its best (in current times, where disunity and fitnah is so common) to encourage and loudly praise whatever good is done, and remain silent on things we may not agree with. If we choose to protest verbally and loudly against every ''unislamic'' thing we see, we start losing our credibility and start creating a stereotypical image about practising muslims. 

It is very clear from the lives of the Sahaba and the pious predecessors what the ideal method for male-female interaction (for a class, lecture, conference etc.) should be, and this is mentioned in the Qur'an as well - and was commanded for the purity of the hearts to that generation which had the purest of hearts. Our success lies in following their footsteps and methodology, as Imam Malik (RA) said, "The latter part of this Ummah cannot rectify themselves except through that which the former part did." That is how the Ummah achieved greatness, by following our own ways and our own methodologies - not by following their ever-changing ways and methodologies, which are, by their own experiences and admission, leading to all sorts of societal problems. 

Before we start expecting people to become like Sahaba, we also need to give them the time and room to grow and reach that level. If you think that the muslim community can make an overnight switch from free and most of the time haraam intermingling to barriers and screens, you will be in for a big disappointment. The Sahaba adjusted to the rules over a period of time, the beginning of which was devoted to strengthening the Imaan and Spirit. Unfortunately you are over-estimating the current imaan-level of the Ummah. It lacks severely... Even born and raised Muslims nowadays need to be treated very delicately like a baby, because unfortunately they have been raised at a time when the Muslim Civilisation is at its lowest and they grow up under the influence of a non-muslim civilisation - no matter where they live. 

So rather than getting ahead of ourselves and raising issues that are beyond the layman's understanding and implementation, provide tools, resources and opportunities that enable them to get to the imaan-level where we can have a society which you talk about. I think Cordoba Academy is a good initiative to empower the layman with Islamic Knowledge. 

During that time, have a little patience and wisdom with people like Sister Y, and events where men and women are seated in the same room without a barrier - for the greater good. 

I sincerely hope that all the people back biting Sr. Yasmin will be giving her lots of their hasanat on the day of judgment. http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/topic/33830-you-muslim-women-from-amercia-giving-lecture-to-men/page__view__findpost__p__514999

As-Salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

May Allah increase you all in good and raise you in rank...ameen.

I too am a simple student who has no authority to issue a legal opinion, however in one of the last classes with Sheikh Muhammad Daniel he mentioned the fact that the females who narrated ahadith in the past are not the same as the women getting up to give lectures to grown men today. He also mentioned that there is no lack of male scholarship to necessitate a woman standing up lecturing grown men (though this is not to be taken as applying that lack of make scholarship would or would not be a justification).May Allah raise every reader to the highest gardens...ameen.Wa salaamu alaikum

-hvsmrspct

As salam mu alaikum wa rahmat Ullah wa barakataHu

Esteemed Colleagues,

Masha Allah, the discussion has had a lot of interest and many variables have sprung out of it.

While others should feel free to continue their discussion, I would like to try and catch up on some questions and comments that were made earlier before I move on to later posts.

Brother Halim (HA) provided very beneficial naseeha earlier and these were two points I wanted to clarify.

Females who narrated hadith/taught in the past.

By the grace of Allah alone, I have read volumes of books regarding the lives of the muhaditheen and Ulama of our Salaf and until now, I have not come across any authentic statements that state young female muhadithaat/musnidaat or scholars would sit in a mixed gathering without a veil/curtain and teach, let alone the other factors I mentioned in my ruling on the issue such as traveling alone, laughing etc.  I humbly request anyone  who has proof to the contrary to present it, because the burden of proof is on the one that alleges this.

Lack of male scholarship justifying females lecturing men.

In Usool al-Fiqh, there exist many maxims (of rulings) some of which allow for dispensations to be made in extreme circumstances.  The level of male scholarship that the Ummah currently enjoys would not constitute an extreme circumstance.  Women participating on the battlefield in a scenario where Jihad is taking place is an extreme circumstance and therefore would allow for a dispensation.  One cannot bring the second situation as a proof to support the first as they are simply not comparable.

And Allah knows best

I sincerely hope that all the people back biting Sr. Yasmin will be giving her lots of their hasanat on the day of judgment.[url]

-guest_guest

As salam mu alaikum

First of all, there are numerous cases where it becomes permissible for a person to talk behind the back of another and this well known by even the most basic students of knowledge. I recommend that this anonymous poster learn more about their deen before they rebuke other people such as this confused revert sister for doing actions that are permissible in defence of those who are doing actions that are at best dubious.   You may read about the permissible cases of backbiting here

Secondly, the Ulama have given preference to not mentioning the name of the individual if it is possible when asking for a ruling which is something we realise.  This is why the name of this post was changed to remove the sister's name and if you read post seven it will become clear to you.

And Allah knows best

MD

As salam mu alaikum wa rahmat Ullah wa barakataHuIn Usool al-Fiqh, there exist many maxims (of rulings) someof which allow for dispensations to be made in extreme circumstances.  The level of male scholarship that the Ummahcurrently enjoys would not constitute an extreme circumstance.  Women participating on the battlefield in ascenario where Jihad is taking place is an extreme circumstance and thereforewould allow for a dispensation.  Onecannot bring the second situation as a proof to support the first as they aresimply not comparable.And Allah knows best

-md

Wa'alaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Could the current socio-political environment in most non-muslim countries count as an extreme circumstance? Muslims in the west are facing issues now that they did not face before, one issue is the western perception of a muslim woman's rights. If the vast majority of non-muslims think that Muslim Women are subjugated, and Islam is a male-dominated religion - and based on their misconceptions they are creating laws that hamper religious acts such as wearing Niqab and Hijab - then is there not a NEED for the muslim community to prove that Islam in no way subjugates a woman? Can a muslim man do that job? No! The Muslim Woman needs to show the non-muslim world (and media) that she is NOT subjugated, and that being a practising Muslim does not mean she cannot be a Teacher, Lawyer, Scholar or Social Worker. This can no longer be done behind the scenes, where non-muslims have no access to it.

Another more serious issue is the young western muslims who are moving away from traditional Islam because they think that traditional Islam and traditional scholars hamper progress and dunyiwai success. We NEED to show these young muslims that they need not abandon their faith in order to achieve their ambitions and goals. (Brings in Sister Y)

If a time required dispensations and flexibility, it is now.

I wish I could somehow communicate the seriousness of this problem, and the urgency I feel. Someone close to me told me that they wouldn't even ''bother asking a Scholar''' because he wouldn't understand, and he/she would rather use their own judgement in matters than ask traditional scholars. The dangerousness of this statement need not be highlighted... 

Again while attending a Muslim training conference in New York, none ofthe attendees found it in the least deplorable that the female Muslim lecturerwas clearly displaying her cleavage and when I objected to this, I was lookedupon as if I was strange or an extremist. (Subhan Allah)To be continued… Mohammed Daniel

-md

Salam Alaikum Sheikh Daniel,
I am commenting because I feel this is a good opportunity to engage with others and listen to other viewpoints so we can learn and benefit more. I believe you are far more learned than me in terms of religion, and I say this with sincere intentions. What I am about to say is more on the emotional, human side...
With all due respect, I believe it would not be wise to object to the dress of a woman in a non-muslim country where women are free to dress as they please. Even if the lady in question was a Muslimah, it is possible that her level of imaan was not where it is supposed to be. So how can we object to her dresscode? (especially since we are in a nonmuslim country governed by nonmuslim laws) Objecting to non-hijabi sister could send many wrong messages. Are we not supposed to engage all sorts of people? If that muslimah had any knowledge or benefits to offer the conference, are we to exclude her because we believe her dresscode is not where it should be? I feel that as a community, we should be inclusive rather than exclusive

-featherbrain

As salam mu alaikum Sister,

Masha Allah, I am unable to catch up with your many points and was making an effort when you posed new questions.  This definitely displays to me your passion for the subject and your genuine concern for Muslim sisters in the US and Western world. May Allah increase in the ummah people such as yourself as we are in need of people who are concerned and want to make a change.

Sister, as you are aware, there is no compulsion in this deen and if a person wants to dress in a certain way then that is between them and Allah (at least in the West).  Many a time, I attend a conference and have to communicate with such people in some capacity, if I were to give them a 'cold shoulder' how would I expect to win their hearts over to practicing Islam properly.  It would only cause them to go further away.  However, I think we need to maintain a balance between having tolerant, cordial, personal interactions with people that are openly sinning (men too) and having these people becoming spokespeople for Islam which is what is happening nowadays in the West. (I am not talking about any individuals here)

Now, moving away from those who are speaking about Islam to those that are speaking in a professional capacity.  If they are Muslim, then they still must adhere to the minimum requirements of their religion.  To have a scantily clad Muslim woman/man lecturing a Muslim audience affords them some form of acceptance in Muslim society and we cannot allow for this to happen in the name of inclusion.  A line must be drawn, where do we draw it and how inclusive do we become?  Now, if we juxtapose this position with two openly gay 'Muslims' coming on stage to lecture on 'Overcoming the stereotypical challenges of adopting a son" or we had a male Muslim lecturer come on stage with a glass of wine set beside him for when he needed the occasional sip and many other examples that can be provided.  Should we not object because we don't want to send the 'wrong message'?

What alarmed me most about the situation above with the sister lecturing and showing parts of her anatomy that only her husband should see, was that she had become acceptable in the Muslim conference that I was attending and I, a visibly practicing Muslim had become strange. With all due respect, Is that the cost of this inclusion that American scholars post Sept 2001 preach?

Let me give you a case in point.  In Morocco, a predominantly Muslim country, women who wear Hijab cannot find decent professional jobs (French influence) but have to settle for jobs as cleaners (go to the airport, hotels etc and see for yourself) because they are given to sisters that do not wear Hijab.  These non-hijabi sisters are more 'pleasing' on the eye and 'increase profits by attracting customers' as was told to me by many people I know in Morocco.  On recent lengthy train journeys, my wife would encounter scantily clad sisters who would have the utmost admiration for her (my wife is from a noble Damascene family and wears abaya and face veil out of her own choice since the age of 13) and they would cry.  You know what they were crying and complaining about?  The were crying because they remembered fondly the days that they would wear Hijab and wished for those days to come back to them.  And by Allah, they were complaining that they could not feed their children because no one gave them a job unless they removed their hijab and wore western clothing.  What happened to their inclusion? Their exclusion came at the cost of society's inclusion of those who disobey Allah openly.

Now ask yourself, which foot should the shoe be on sister?

And Allah knows best

MD

P.S. Could I invite you to read this article because I think it would help you in understanding more the side arguments in relation to Hijab.  I would also kindly welcome more participation of students living in the US as you said in the Thanksgiving post "So why not let American Scholars address this since this issue is specific to their region" It would be useful to hear their opinions too.

As-Salaamu alaikum we rahmatullah

I pray that Allah preserve you all and increase you in Iman...ameen.

I personally have been avoiding this topic a bit. After giving my initial responces...which were not based on opinion but on what is known to be from the deen (though again, I am biased in my responces because I have care and concern for my wife and daughters). I gave my view and figured that I would leave it at that mainly due to the fact that this is a topic that is highly emotionally charged in our time. Many times it is not a matter of proofs and evidences but a matter of "well, what about if this was the case" and "what about if that was the case". I will share a couple of points on this briefly and then will respond with more detail in a day or so. 

As a martial artist I am often asked, "what would you do if someone did this" or "what is the best way to defend against such and such", when I am asked these questions the answer is always the same...I don't know. There are thousands of circumstances and situations...what if it is dark, what if it is slippery, what if the person isn't alone, what if there are witnesses, what if there aren't and so on and so on. The fact is, I never know what I will do in any given situation because every situation and circumstance is different. So what is the answer? You train in your "art" and then let your reflexes fill the void, responding to each situation appropriately. Why am I mentioning this? Because if we get the basic rules down and apply them, making taqwa and obedience our habit, then when any situation arises we will respond to it based on our reflexes...which have been trained upon taqwa and obedience. 

This is in no way meant to accuse or blame our sisters who are in situations that put them in dire straights. That is going to be a part of my larger discussion on the topic.

I would like to point out a very important point about Muslims in the west and the U.S. specifically, we are certainly not a homogenous entity. There are so many varying groups, salafis and Sufis, Sunnis and shi'ites, devout and "non-practicing", cultural and converts, fully ignorant and scholars and everything in between. I know the Jama'at that I am with are (slowly) working towards semi-autonomy and then there are groups of Muslims who seek to be accepted by and absorbed into the masses. I am saying this for two reasons, the first is to say that there are many, many Muslims here in the U.S. that are striving for the establishment of deen and we do so as an indigenous population. The second reason is to mention that (and though this is extremely unpopular, I will elaborate later) it is when Muslims make Hijra to these lands and compromise their religion, compromise their families' religion, and compromise their honor that so many of these problems are created for everyone...including the confused non-Muslim. [as an anecdotal story, my wife (who is niqabi) and her best friend (who is hijabi but does not wear niqab), both american converts, took our collective 12 children to the aquarium and they were approached by an immigrant sister who said to them, with a wave of her hand in front of her own face, "all of this isn't necessary, God only cares about what is in your hearts." This is where so much of the problems stem from. I remember also, when my wife first accepted Islam (many, many years ago) an Egyptian brother told her she didn't have to cover, women only did this when they got old...and then proceeded to show us pictures of his wife, daughters, aunts and mother. Al-Hamdulillah we had scholarship locally to help guide and teach us or who knows what may have been the situation.]

As I said, I just wanted to touch on this subject very briefly and have every intention of elaborating upon it later. Insha Allah, I will discuss the hijab and various situations but more than this, I want to speak on the topic of core problems...because that is where the real issues are and then these topics tend to simply be manifestations or symptoms.

If I have said anything offensive I apologize, this is Far from my intention. If there are errors it is due to my own shortcomings. I hope that my next post will be of some service and I pray that Allah gives me tawfeeq in completing it.

May Allah, The Mighty and Majestic, grant all of you success and true happiness in this life and the hereafter...ameen.

As-salaamu alaikum.  This is a great discussion, masha Allah.  Shaykh Mohammed Daniel had requested some students in the US to participate, hence my post.

I actually live in the Washington DC metro area.  The situation of the Muslims is quite sad.  Many of the people in charge of the masajid in this area with thousands of Muslims do not even care for proper etiquette at the masjid let alone at lectures/conferences.  I have prayed behind khateebs that were clean shaven, khateebs that do not have proper Qur'an recitation, khateebs that do not have good English or Arabic language skills, khateebs in tight jeans, etc.  

I recently heard 'Islamic' music playing over the speakers right after congregational prayer because of some conference in the main hall.

Sisters show up with see-through hijabs (maybe in some cases none at all), and the management doesn't do anything to correct this either.

Right outside the congregational hall of my local masjid after Friday prayers, they have a bazaar where women/men intermingle, go in and out of the same doors bumping into each other etc.

SubhanAllah.

I feel the same way about men/women lecturing in inappropriate scenarios as I do about the above issues—if we have the direct ability to correct these problems we must correct them, else we must voice our disapproval of them, else we must dislike the munkar we observe in our hearts.

If we become desensitized with a lot these wrongdoings, then sooner or later, hardly anyone will even care. Muslims might even be mislead to think that these situations are appropriate (we seek refuge in Allah from this).

It is hard enough to try and practice Islam in an un-Islamic country, but even when your own fellow Muslims don't care about whats going on at the houses of Allah or at Islamic conferences, it is pretty disheartening.

We shouldn't worry about how non-Muslims will think about us if we adhere to the Shari'ah. There may be those that think we are 'backwards' or 'oppressive' or 'weird', and subhanAllah, these type of people may never accept Muslims as part of their society unless Muslims apostate (we seek refuge in Allah from this).

On the other hand, there may be people attracted to Islam due to the rules pertaining to gender interactions and modesty.

I pray to Allah that all Muslims stay on the straight path and are able to practice their deen openly and correctly.

I ask Allah for forgiveness for anything incorrect I have stated.

Fatima Baraktulla (Lecturer at iERA) wrote on facebook: Sisters, do not be taken by the increased culture especially amongst some of our American sisters to put their images and videos out there in the public eye for the sake of dawah. Some of the Muslim leaders in America seem to be encouraging this and I'm afraid they are very short-sighted in doing so. The Ulema have told us that non of the 4 Islamic schools of thought allow women to be purposefully displayed in public especially where men of every background can see them. There is consensus on this. Even if a woman is wearing a khimar and uncovering or covering her face a man has to lower his gaze. The scholars of the past who were women taught with the utmost modesty - often from behind a screen or niqab but certainly not making their image and themselves available and on display to all, certainly not smiling and joking in the presence of men. So any way you look at it my dear sisters using your photo and putting it out there so readily is counterproductive and is totally against the spirit of what Islam wants for women. The way that men so readily comment on the looks of some of our female speakers telling them they are beautiful and asking if they are married is completely wrong. In sha Allah, Allah will increase the effect of our dawah and it will be purer for us if we take the safe and modest option. After all we are doing it for Allah and so the means have to be pure otherwise quite frankly Allah told us that to stay in our homes and look after our families is better for us. May Allah forgive us and them and bless the good they do and and grant us wisdom.

Fatima Baraktulla (Lecturer at iERA) studies with Dr Akram Nadwi and he is actually speaking with her at one event. Dr Nadwi is a great scholar so it must be halal or he would not do it.

Salam,

If I can refer to the text "Maharim ul-Lisan" by shaykh Muhammad Mawlud rahimahullah from Mauritinia, there is a separate section (at the end) about the prohibitions related to hearing and sight. (We had a course on this text in our mosque).

He says in verse 111: "Also prohibited is deriving pleasure from any voice that one is not permitted to hear or listening to a woman whose charms could be seductive to one's heart."

And in verses 114 and 115: "In addition, looking lustfully upon a fully dressed woman is among those things that are obligatory to avoid. Furthermore, one is obliged to lower the gaze from every permitted thing whereby its sight could lead to that which is impermissible."

And I can continue because the text mentions more important rules in this regard. See verses 124, 125, 126.

And in the verse before the last verse he says: "Beware: your eyes and the forbidden! Even if it be the wrist of an elderly woman or the silhouette of hips."

I pray we all practice upon what we learn. We should be very careful with these things.

We can also extend this debate to the working place. I work with several women of Moroccan descent and they don't wear hijab. They have several reasons why they work there and why don't wear hijab but if you start thinking about this it makes you realize:

1. They give up hijab because else they can't find a job or at least they have difficulties with it;

2. They wear unappropriate clothing;

3. They kiss and hug and shake hands with men, they joke etc.;

4. Once they have the job they are in the situation they miss several of their fard prayers on a daily basis. (Alhamdulillah, I can pray at work but for them it is very difficult to pray because of clothing, space, cleanliness etc.)

What excuse will they have in front of Allah? This is sad. These women are not married and need to provide for themselves because they live alone but at what cost? They give up din for the dunya. We ask Allah to guide them all and us.

Just wanted to share this with you.

H.

 What excuse will they have in front of Allah?

This is sad. These women are not married and need to provide for themselves because they live alone but at what cost? They give up din for the dunya. We ask Allah to guide them all and us. Just wanted to share this with you. H. 

1. They give up hijab because else they can't find a job or at least they have difficulties with it;

 

-haruni

JazakAllah Khair for having concern for the sisters.

First of all, we don't know if the sisters don't observe Hijab because of their jobs. The most probable explanation is that they don't realise the importance of Hijab, and are probably at a weaker Imaan-Level. Majority of all jobs can be performed while observing Hijab, no matter how corporate or labour-intensive. Most gardeners & cleaners at our condominium are Hijab-wearing muslimahs. 

ISecondly, if they don't wear Hijab because they feel they are discriminated against at the work-place, then I think the sadder thing is that they don't have responsible male mahrams feeding & clothing them. I wish others (especially brothers) would highlight that sad fact more than the lack of hijab of sisters. Unless we are willing as a community to support these sisters financially, it is best for us to not comment or pass judgement on their predicament. Many a times, the ''gheerah'' of brothers is misplaced. 

I think we could use Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs to shed some light on the unfortunate predicament of the muslim ummah today. When even basic physiological needs of many muslims are not being met, how can we expect them to rise higher and reach the muslim standards? If we take help from human psychology, the fear of poverty at times takes a higher precedent than moral values. 
In theory we can expect a Muslim woman to stay at home and expect her not to  venture out without hijab and have full faith that Allah will Help her, but a rare few have that level of imaan... practically, not many would choose that route. We can say, oh Muslims are different, we are supposed to have Imaan, so that doesn't apply to us... but at the end of the day, muslims are also human beings, and they are bound by the desires and needs of the human body. 

My point is:  we need to have more empathy for fellow muslims, and if we are not in a position to help them out of their state, lets at-least refrain from tutting and tsk-ing. We cannot help our fellow muslims unless we try to understand the cause of their behaviour.

Featherbrain, jazak Allahu khayran for you reply, I appreciate and you have opened my eyes for something I didn't see and you are right.

Here an article I read today: http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/10/muslim-women-prejudice-getting-job

(Females who narrated hadith/taught in the past. By the grace of Allah alone, I have read volumes of books regarding the lives of the muhaditheen and Ulama of our Salaf and until now, I have not come across any authentic statements that state young female muhadithaat/musnidaat or scholars would sit in a mixed gathering without a veil/curtain and teach, let alone the other factors I mentioned in my ruling on the issue such as traveling alone, laughing etc. I humbly request anyone who has proof to the contrary to present it, because the burden of proof is on the one that alleges this.) Well sir you are wrong read the following links to see http://www.newislamicdirections.com/nid/notes/a_glimpse_at_early_women_islamic_scholars http://www.emel.com/article?id&a_id=828

Salam 'guest',

These articles don't prove the opposite if you read carefully what our shaykh Mohammed Daniel writes and what's in them. Moreover, I have referred to shaykh Akram's book above, several posts back. So this is nothing new either.

Fi amanillah,

Harun